In the piece I wrote for the Skeptical Inqurier about my encounter with ‘Healing on the Streets’, the ASA complaint and the following media attention I closed the article with the following quote.
I think my story demonstrates one very important thing: standing up for what we know is right and speaking out against what we know is wrong can result in a tangible achievement. One person can make a difference; all you have to do is act. Be that person. Make that difference.
I was right.
The original leaflet from ‘Healing on the Streets’ in Bath
The new leaflet with a disclaimer explaining people must seek professional advice from their doctor. It reads “We would advice those who receive prayer and feel there is a notable change in their health, that they seek a doctors verification and advice, before making any changes to the medication they receive for a condition. “
Standing up for what we know is right and speaking out against what we know is wrong can result in a tangible achievement. One person can make a difference; all you have to do is act.
Be that person.
Make that difference.
You were right. Excellent result: Well done!
I’m now waiting for all the doctors’ verifications of the cure of cleft palette, Down’s Syndrome and missing limbs; to name just three!
I very much like your final paragraph. After spending half a century of being ‘invisible’ I now write to my MP, sign petitions, leave comments, send emails and make my voice heard and it is very empowering. Keep up the great work.
It is empowering, that’s exactly right! It’s nice to be able to think ‘I did that!’
Advertising Standards Authority admit that there was a substantial FLAW in their judgement
Early this year the ASA ruled that HOTS Bath was in breach of advertising standards in expressing our belief that God can heal physically as well as spiritually and emotionally.
However, the official review process has now been completed and has identified a substantial flaw in the ASA’s Adjudication.
The ASA has subsequently accepted the official reviewers recommendation that the HOTS Bath website is actually outside of their remit and therefore beyond their jurisdiction.
This is great news and sets a clear precedent for Christian websites to be able to share testimonies of Gods goodness through physical healing with out opposition from official bodies.
Well no, it does depend on what they claim for websites do still fall under the ASA’s remit – just not in this particular case.
The main thing I was concerned about though was the misleading leaflet, and that has been dealt with so that’s good.
Gail you state: “This is great news and sets a clear precedent for Christian websites to be able to share testimonies of Gods goodness through physical healing with out opposition from official bodies.”
The ‘testimonies’ on the HOTS website, listed under the tab ‘Stories’ are no proof of healing by prayer … are they? I can’t understand why Christians would not want to be 100% factual unless they are trying to deceive.
The man, Tony, had his cancerous lump removed by excellent surgery and his bladder repaired. The man with brain tumours had one surgically removed. The “improvements in sight and hearing in Mozambique” are not conclusive as the experiments were not conducted under reasonable conditions.
I look forward to seeing HOTS remove all the spurious claims from their website but I don’t expect they will.
If you have any medically supported claims for healing due to prayer alone then let’s see them!
“Let’s see them!” I don’t think you want to do that David because there actually IS one such on the HOTS site! You were not 100% factual about their cases.
So why deliberately omit reference to the case which provides the evidence you demand? Just who is trying to deceive?
Richard: The stories appear to be frequently changing. For example, the written account of the brain tumours has now been replaced by an audio file: Radio_2.wav. I’m sorry but I do not check their claims on a daily basis.
I am open to all credible evidence. Not personal testimony. I’m eager to see any verifiable effects on physical (not mental) health.
1) Which verified single cure are you citing?
2) If, as you say, “There actually IS [ONLY] one such on the HOTS site” why are all the others there?
Thanks for the clarification David. Regret I cannot answer about content, that’s HOTS responsibility.
IMO one reason for paucity of evidence is the plain fact people know when they’re healed. Also others witness an obvious change which alone is sufficient proof. When a person is crippled one day and then is normal the next it’s rather churlish to demand proof. Medical records are confidential and become historic confidential anyway.
The case you overlooked is that of my wife who was registered permanently disabled! After publication an investigative journalist with experience of fraudulent disability claims came to check us out and went away more than happy. He said the irrefutable evidence for her healing is NOT medical – it’s the fact that she immediately cancelled the financial allowance! (See also my other comments to Hayley.)
Spot on in my opinion. I mean, do we expect to line up, say, 10 people and only pray for 5 of them? Why would you not pray for each of them (if they want it); that’s obscene! The thing is you can’t really do a controlled experiment in this setting. If you are doing a purely chemical/physical thing then it is resonably easy to control and monitor other factors. When you are engaging with things that touch mental and emotional factors also, as well as, importantly, spiritual/supernatural elements, how do you control each other thing? If you are appealing to God, how do you control God? (Clearly many people don’t believe in Him, but my point is that if HOTS are claiming that when they pray in Jesus name some (but not necessarily all) people are healed, then it’s clear that whilst you can make some attempt to understand what influences there are affecting the ‘success’ of that prayer (and much theology and general analysis has been done on this), at the end of the day you can’t fully control or understand all the factors at play).
More widely, I’m pretty sure whatever evidence was presented people would demand more. Some people are genuinely open to discovering if God is there. Others, whether because of past experiences and hurts, a high view of themselves and mankind in general, or various other reasons, are actively looking to disprove God exists rather than approaching this with an open mind to look at the evidence (of course there are people growing up in Christian homes who refuse to even question their assumptions that God exists).
I’m not saying that’s the case with people here, as I don’t know anybody here personally, but that’s my experience of relating to other people I meet.
Christopher, you CAN do controlled experiments.
For instance the US group quoted on the HOTS site went to Mozambique and claimed improvements in hearing following ‘healing prayers’. Unfortunately the test conditions and methodology were not conducive to obtaining any reliable results.
The experiment should be repeated in USA on hearing impaired patients, under correct conditions, with computer generated tests (ABR)being done before and after intercessory prayers. This method would not need to divide people into two groups and deny any patients the possibility of a cure. All subjectivity would be removed as the ‘patient’ does not have to respond in any way other than by autonomous electrical activity in the brain.
The ABR tests could be repeated several months later to find whether improvements, if any, were long lasting.
If such a test indicated there was a significant and permanent improvement in a statistically large proportion of the patients then it would show that your belief was well founded.
I have suggested this in the past and was told that “… perhaps God only did such healing in countries where proper medical services were not available”. To my mind that’s a cop out … so do the tests in Mozambique under laboratory conditions.
I expect people are getting tired of me asking for any medically documented cures by ‘healing’ of the following conditions … cleft palette, Down’s Syndrome and cerebral palsy.
If you’re simply saying the a number of people could have medical tests done and then have prayer and then medical test afterwards then I would agree. I think it does happen and my understanding was that on the HOTS list there were a couple of examples, but it sounded like you disputed that. It is difficult when people don’t make it clear exactly what happened (i.e. whether something is surgically removed – which God could still be helping, but isn’t as obviously miraculous!).
There’s also currently an awkwardness in that the healings that currently occur aren’t always as extreme as the ones you cite. This doesn’t mean they can’t be verified, but, well, often people don’t bother to get them verified. For example if someone’s had back pain for years caused by a bent spine or something and then gets straghtened through prayer (as happens) then they are likely to just start walking normally and carry on their life. They’re unlikely to head straight to the doctors for a medical examination to confirm their back is straightened (although I wish they did as there would then be greater evidence for those who aren’t friends and so feel they need more substantial evidence than testimony (which is fair enough)).
So I don’t think you’re wrong to question, and I don’t necessarily expect someone to suddenly just start believing in God because some random person on the internet that they knew someone who got healed once or twice(!), but I know before I trusted in Christ that these kind of stories made me think that perhaps there was more to this God thing than just blindly believing in some being who made zero impact on the world and therefore couldn’t be trusted. So I don’t think you’re wrong to be questioning, but I’d just encourage you to be open and questionning both ways (perhaps if you’re close to a HOTS team near you then go along and have a chat?).
Thanks David